Mongoose Traveller or Cepheus Engine

[Kyonshi]

I was thinking about using playing some Traveller again some day soon. I
have started playing that with Mongoose Traveller 1st edition, but I
never switched to 2nd edition because 1st seemed to be doing just fine.
I found MgT to be the perfect mix of playability and hackability for
that kind of game, although I wouldn't use it for every RPG possible.
Lately I encountered Cepheus Engine though, which is basically just MgT
1st edition with the serial numbers filed off, for the most part.
It seems there were some license contentions when MgT 2nd ed. came out
and people reacted by just cloning their own system that was slightly
closer to 1st by using the SRD released for that one.
It's a serviceable system from what I can see, but it of course doesn't
have the usual product identity things that were not released in the
original SRD.
Namely it doesn't have more than generic descriptions of the ships
involved (and well, no art), and it doesn't have the career events
tables from MgT, of which the MgT system only released the scout as a
reference.
Instead it has perfectly serviceable career tables that are equivalent
to a lot of those, but without the additional events tables.

Which is a pity because those were one of the best things about MgT.
Thew way how the system helped one create an actual character was
fantastic. Unlike other systems Classic Traveller was famous for being a
game in which you could die in Character generation on a failed Survival
roll (a feature Cepheus Engine tries to emulate), MgT had this changed
to eject the character from the career and maybe settle them with
injuries. Not quite as survivable as people often claim, as I had
multiple characters die during character generation when multiple failed
Survival rolls killed them anyway.

In any case the main reason I am looking at both of them is that I would
love to make my own document of rules for the game I plan on running.
But while both have similar options I am not sure if it is not just a
lot of wasted effort, when instead I could just make a shorter houserule
document.

[Alex Schroeder]

I have run Mongoose Traveller, the first one; years later I ran Classic
Traveller and it felt similar but also a bit weirder because the civil
careers aren’t there. But that betting element during character creation is
there, of course. I don’t know if many people play that way, however.
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.

I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.

https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

[Kyonshi]

Post by Alex Schroeder
I have run Mongoose Traveller, the first one; years later I ran Classic
Traveller and it felt similar but also a bit weirder because the civil
careers aren’t there. But that betting element during character creation is
there, of course. I don’t know if many people play that way, however.
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.
I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.
https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

Yeah, I have to say the character generation system really is one of the
best parts of Mongoose Traveller, as it gives you a fully-fledged
backstory. It's not quite OSR though, as it involves too much investment
into the character at the beginning.

It does work as a sort of party game though: everybody sits around the
table and tries to create their character, and sometimes you manage to
get connections with the other players. That's all very neat and easy,
and I think it would be a great way to spend a first session.

I was recently thinking about maybe playing Traveller Adventure 4:
Leviathan in MgT, as that is a very nice sandbox adventure (with a
moving base).

[lkh]

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.

Which seems o.k. if you'd need a quick replacement character, I guess.
But your also missing an interesting part of the game. The betting
game, trying to advance your character as much as possible, or
as much as you like, before the game starts.

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.
https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

There's one thing about Traveller: it's a complete game. Much more so
than OD&D. For me there seems hardly any need to fiddle around, find
my preferred initiative rule or whatever. You can just take the little
three booklets and confidently start playing. It'll work without
any house rules needed.

Post by Kyonshi
Yeah, I have to say the character generation system really is one of the
best parts of Mongoose Traveller, as it gives you a fully-fledged
backstory. It's not quite OSR though, as it involves too much investment
into the character at the beginning.

So since I've run MgT1, CT and T5, and played CT, I think MgT and T5
*seem* to offer more options and interesting life path events. But
don't they actually give you more limitations? Which no doubt help
in making up our minds? CT hardly gives you any rails to orient
yourself. To my mind, that's a feature. Especially the "Others"
carrer leaves wide room for interpretation.

That's a general thing about rpg rules I feel: The more advanced an
an edition is (by name, by number and year of publishing) the more
specific it gets. Specificity may well feel like "more options",
because they're all spelled out. But the old and lean rules sets
never prevented you from adding as many unnamed options to your game
as you want.

Post by Kyonshi
Leviathan in MgT, as that is a very nice sandbox adventure (with a
moving base).

A great idea, I was thinking about that one too, on and off. It might
well be a master class in domain style gaming. Since at the primary
player level PCs would be among the highest ranking officers on the
ship. While of course they could go on many adventures themselves,
it would be highly realistic if they'd send regular crew members
on individual missions planet side: an open table of
red shirts ;)

I also like that at the officer level there are many tactical issues
to debate, and star ship encounters might lead to some good old
tabletop space fighting.

I'd be in! :D

Also, CT would be my preferred rules choice, but I guess you knew
that already.

Cheers,

lkh

[Kyonshi]

Post by lkh

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.

Which seems o.k. if you'd need a quick replacement character, I guess.
But your also missing an interesting part of the game. The betting
game, trying to advance your character as much as possible, or
as much as you like, before the game starts.

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.
https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

There's one thing about Traveller: it's a complete game. Much more so
than OD&D. For me there seems hardly any need to fiddle around, find
my preferred initiative rule or whatever. You can just take the little
three booklets and confidently start playing. It'll work without
any house rules needed.

Post by Kyonshi
Yeah, I have to say the character generation system really is one of the
best parts of Mongoose Traveller, as it gives you a fully-fledged
backstory. It's not quite OSR though, as it involves too much investment
into the character at the beginning.

So since I've run MgT1, CT and T5, and played CT, I think MgT and T5
*seem* to offer more options and interesting life path events. But
don't they actually give you more limitations? Which no doubt help
in making up our minds? CT hardly gives you any rails to orient
yourself. To my mind, that's a feature. Especially the "Others"
carrer leaves wide room for interpretation.

I think the main thing I like about MgT was that you could create a
character and decide what you wanted to do, but it seemed like
everything you could decide to do was somehow able to be put in. It felt
like this was a complete world simulator in a box, and you could add to
it but you didn't need to detract from it.

Post by lkh
That's a general thing about rpg rules I feel: The more advanced an
an edition is (by name, by number and year of publishing) the more
specific it gets. Specificity may well feel like "more options",
because they're all spelled out. But the old and lean rules sets
never prevented you from adding as many unnamed options to your game
as you want.

Post by Kyonshi
Leviathan in MgT, as that is a very nice sandbox adventure (with a
moving base).

A great idea, I was thinking about that one too, on and off. It might
well be a master class in domain style gaming. Since at the primary
player level PCs would be among the highest ranking officers on the
ship. While of course they could go on many adventures themselves,
it would be highly realistic if they'd send regular crew members
on individual missions planet side: an open table of
red shirts ;)
I also like that at the officer level there are many tactical issues
to debate, and star ship encounters might lead to some good old
tabletop space fighting.
I'd be in! :D

I afterwards realized there was a 2nd ed. reboot scenario of Leviathan
called The Last Flight of the Amuar, which actually is based on one
small tidbit in Leviathan that claims the Amuar was a Leviathan-class
ship that was lost in the Trojan Reaches.
The adventure is basically meant as an update to Leviathan, as Leviathan
seems to imply that nobody knows what is going on in the Outrim Void
despite it being right next to an area that has been settled and
explored for centuries.
Although I think this is nicely explained in Leviathan itself: the
Imperium has information about the area under wraps, and it's just the
patrons of the PCs that don't have the info available. ALthough I guess
that made more sense when the Information Superhighway wasn't a thing.

By the way I realized Albie Fiore seems to have been the driving force
behind Leviathan. The same Albie Fiore who wrote The Lichway and The
Halls of Tizun Thane for White Dwarf.
I find it rather sad that afterwards he decided to put his talents
elsewhere, as those three scenarios all are great works, and I wish we'd
have more stuff from him. He seems to have focused on boardgames for a
while (he cowrote Talisman) and then went into crossword design for the
Guardian and the Financial Times. But I wish he'd been more prolific
creating DnD and Traveller stuff.

Post by lkh
Also, CT would be my preferred rules choice, but I guess you knew
that already.

MgT 1st is mine, so there's that.

Post by lkh
Cheers,
lkh

[Justisaur]

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
I have run Mongoose Traveller, the first one; years later I ran Classic
Traveller and it felt similar but also a bit weirder because the civil
careers aren’t there. But that betting element during character creation is
there, of course. I don’t know if many people play that way, however.
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.
I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.
https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

Yeah, I have to say the character generation system really is one of the
best parts of Mongoose Traveller, as it gives you a fully-fledged
backstory. It's not quite OSR though, as it involves too much investment
into the character at the beginning.
It does work as a sort of party game though: everybody sits around the
table and tries to create their character, and sometimes you manage to
get connections with the other players. That's all very neat and easy,
and I think it would be a great way to spend a first session.

I only played Traveller once (if you don't count Megatraveller CRPG
which I enjoyed too) and the session consisted of making a character.
Never actually did anything. I found it fun anyway.

I used Heroes of Legend in 2e AD&D quite a bit which has a similar
background generation (no betting though, and no chance of death,
unplayable characters yes) for fantasy. I eventually found it a bit too
complicated and long and affecting character power and pared it down
considerably. I stopped using it sometime in 3e altogether, but
occasionally fondly reminisce about 'session 0' where we'd spend a good
portion of the first session making backgrounds with it.

[s***@ereborbbs.duckdns.org]

Post by Justisaur

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Alex Schroeder
I have run Mongoose Traveller, the first one; years later I ran Classic
Traveller and it felt similar but also a bit weirder because the civil
careers aren???t there. But that betting element during character
creation is
there, of course. I don???t know if many people play that way, however.
People click on generators until they get a character they like, I fear.
I started thinking about a short Traveller replacement based on
conversations with Frotz. I never had any concrete plans and so it never
went anywhere.
https://alexschroeder.ch/pdfs/Halbardier.pdf

Yeah, I have to say the character generation system really is one of the
best parts of Mongoose Traveller, as it gives you a fully-fledged
backstory. It's not quite OSR though, as it involves too much investment
into the character at the beginning.
It does work as a sort of party game though: everybody sits around the
table and tries to create their character, and sometimes you manage to
get connections with the other players. That's all very neat and easy,
and I think it would be a great way to spend a first session.

I only played Traveller once (if you don't count Megatraveller CRPG
which I enjoyed too) and the session consisted of making a character.
Never actually did anything. I found it fun anyway.

There's this distinction now that crpgs are not actual rpgs. If people in
the elder times (the 80s...) had known that. A lot of early attempts at
computer games were attempts to get the DnD experience into a solo format
with the computer playing the role of the DM.
Even Colossal Cave started out like that.
Nowadays people will of course say those aren't real roleplaying games.

Post by Justisaur
I used Heroes of Legend in 2e AD&D quite a bit which has a similar
background generation (no betting though, and no chance of death,
unplayable characters yes) for fantasy. I eventually found it a bit too
complicated and long and affecting character power and pared it down
considerably. I stopped using it sometime in 3e altogether, but
occasionally fondly reminisce about 'session 0' where we'd spend a good
portion of the first session making backgrounds with it.